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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Dec 4, 2005 8:23pm
Forum: etree Subject: Moderation: Grateful Dead Thread and Post Control in Forum

The last two weeks have been a trying time for all of us here concerning the changes to the Grateful Dead collection. Many people have been tossed by confusion and emotion, looking for understanding and release, and in the process many words have been expressed here in thousands of posts and threads. Some have been good words; some have not.

While we realize the need for people to come to terms with the changes, we ask that you begin to do this in ways other than posting yet more about Grateful Dead "issues" to this forum. Almost all possible viewpoints- rational, irrational and emotional- have been pretty fully expressed at this point. New posts on this topic are likely to be rather redundant with what has already been expressed here.

Apart from the aging topic of the GD here, fans of the thousands of other trade-friendly bands would love to make their own voices heard here. They have patiently waited while Deadhead fever has raged here. If they have tried to post, they have been drowned out the last two weeks by so many threads about one single band. Please Deadheads, make room here again for the rest of this LMA community.

So, in the interest of forum health and usability, please don't post fresh threads on this old topic. If you do, you may see new threads posted that disappear later. You may make new posts here that disappear later. This is part of a general strategy for returning this LMA community forum to normal. Please don't take it personally if your posts are removed. It's just a way of asking you to move on by giving you a little push forward. If you feel strongly enough about your thoughts to post them, you can just repost them elsewhere on the internet, or talk them over with your real-life friends.

Two posts from Brewster appealing to people's higher natures:
http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=49775
http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=49814

My own calls for help:
http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=50062
From a simpler time:
http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=39913

Thanks for your understanding.

-Diana, a LMA volunteer curator and forum moderator

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-12-05 04:23:24

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Poster: HopOttin Date: Dec 5, 2005 12:09am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Moderation: Grateful Dead Thread and Post Control in Forum

with all due respect, is this a community or not? I believe it was one of Weir's mouthpieces that said something to the effect of "the Archive is not a community" which many people here disagreed with. Allowing us to continue the debate over this situation is part of that community in my opinion. If we are not allowed to continue discussion, then I would say the community, as it relates to Deadheads, suffers.

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Poster: phishphan Date: Dec 5, 2005 12:43am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Moderation: Grateful Dead Thread and Post Control in Forum

Still missing the point are we. Read Diana's initial post, she is asking that the sheer volume of GD posts be limited. How difficult is it to simply say thanks for the effort of getting the shows back up, and leave it at that? I agree, that the number of GD posts the past week has made it impossible to carry a normal type of discussion on this board, and the increase in traffic due to all the GD posting as of late, has left the site bogged down, at least on my end.

For the sake of bandwith, please quit the bitchin', complaining, hoorays and applaudes for other places, and let the music do the talking.

-=nick

This post was modified by phishphan on 2005-12-05 08:43:55

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Poster: HopOttin Date: Dec 5, 2005 5:05am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Moderation: Grateful Dead Thread and Post Control in Forum

Then I guess I would ask why the main thread on Bob Weir's statements was wrapped. It was one single thread on an important aspect of this topic.

As a bigger picture comment, I think the discussions that have gone on about the Grateful Dead situation would have been less intrusive if the Archive had a more sophisticated forum such as those phpbb pages in a way that a viewer would only see the main topic and not a line for each response underneath it unless it was expanded. Generally. I think this would benefit the Archive in a number of ways such as possibly seperating out technical questions, band related questions and bands that are using the Archive to actively promote themselves. Just a suggestions. I know the Archive has a lot on their "to do" list and I do appreciate all that is available through here.

And phishphan, if you're lucky enough one day Holy Moses and the High Rollers will have a fanbase that feels as strongly about your music as many of us do about the Dead.

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Poster: phishphan Date: Dec 5, 2005 5:18am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Moderation: Grateful Dead Thread and Post Control in Forum

touche(sp?)...but if that day comes, I will be one incredibly grateful person. but also if that day comes, and some situation arises that stirs up a lot of discussion, I would hope that HMHR's fans would use a little bit more control with their comments and show more respect than some of the other posters here in this forum. (Mind you, I am not including you in this. Your comments , albeit against the whole purpose of this thread [and mine for that matter], are valid in the point that this IS a community, and there should be discussion in it)

The problem I have seen is that there is just been so much backlash from all of this in the forums here. And now there is more admin time needed to monitor and in the case of a large chunk of these recent GD posts, moderation or complete removal of the thread, that its causing a lot of basic pain-in-the-ass usage of the site. last week I couldn't surf from page to page, looking for a show, without having to wait for a few minutes per page to load, while some threads were viewed over 1000 times in one day. I've been here for a while, and I've never seen the volume on the forum board like last week, ever.

I know that archive.org/audio is the source of a shit ton of controversy recently, and because of that general traffic has probably increased. hell, friends who don't even know how to use a computer, but make me grab shows for them, even knew about the removal. I think Diana is trying to stress that maybe with all the increased traffic, and everyone posting every 2 minutes about how things suck now, that keeping this service running smoothly is becoming something more difficult to do. Sounds like the people who keep this place alive are politely asking for us to ease up and lighten the load a little bit. can we?

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Poster: drew4utoo Date: Dec 4, 2005 8:23am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Moderation: Grateful Dead Thread and Post Control in Forum

With all due respect, sounds like censorship to me. Apologizing or warning before you do it does not make it anything else. Sorry if that sounds harsh but I think it's a valid description.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Dec 4, 2005 8:26am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Moderation: Grateful Dead Thread and Post Control in Forum

Harsh or not, that is the state of things for now. Apologies and thanks for dealing.

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Poster: laptaper Date: Dec 4, 2005 8:36am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Moderation: Grateful Dead Thread and Post Control in Forum

There's ample message room on the Dead's own website - why not take your arguments straight to the horse's [pick your favorite aperture]? Don't know if they censor or not, probably do, but I've already read several very critical posts there.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Dec 4, 2005 7:54pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Moderation: Grateful Dead Thread and Post Control in Forum

In a pruned thread, a patron suggested this site as well:
"http://gdforum.com/forum/
they have a tape trading forum"

I can also recommend that folks start personal blogs to air their views. Indeed, I have noticed a couple Deadheads who have done so as a result of recent events.

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Poster: dgrayshn Date: Dec 4, 2005 9:37am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Moderation: Grateful Dead Thread and Post Control in Forum

sounds more like being good citizens of the archive

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-12-04 17:37:53

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Poster: BornCrossEyed42 Date: Dec 4, 2005 9:01am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Moderation: Grateful Dead Thread and Post Control in Forum

sorry but i had a post up here where i was communicating with people in a positive way, and finding ways to share the music, and now since my post and those replies are gone, i do not know who those people are, and i've lost their email addresses. so please tell me why my post about the europe 72 music was considered something that should be removed- and where i can find those people again since i've lost my contacts with them

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Dec 4, 2005 9:28am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Moderation: Grateful Dead Thread and Post Control in Forum

Please trade shows person-to-person elsewhere. See the FAQ here for some appropriate resources, such as the related yet separate, well-tailored site db.etree.org. Sorry.

http://www.archive.org/about/faqs.php#226

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-12-04 17:28:15

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Dec 6, 2005 7:09am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Moderation: Grateful Dead Thread and Post Control in Forum

Accidental spinoff thread here:
http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=50867

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-12-06 15:09:02

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Poster: J.C. Date: Dec 6, 2005 7:32am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Moderation: Grateful Dead Thread and Post Control in Forum

I haven't posted on the current touchy subject for the exact reasons Diana wants to play ice-mod now. That doesn't mean that I don't think the current heavy-handed modding sucks royally, because I do.

It flies in the spirit of the entire archive. I was planning a long, thoughful post, but in the end all I wanted to say was:

This sucks.

So I'll just say that.

"Thanks for your understanding."

Don't thank me for something you don't have.

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Poster: Grtfl Prophet Date: Dec 4, 2005 10:50am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Moderation: Grateful Dead Thread and Post Control in Forum

I agree with you 100% that many of the GD related posts have become redundant, and rather uninteresting if I may add. I have definitely been shying away from the forum because I dont find too much new material, or other band related posts, because of the dominating GD themes. On the other hand, the only reason I know of the archive is because of the Dead, and their community here, and I can understand how there are so many posts regarding recent issues. Im know this has come up before, and Im sure you have reasons, but would it not be easier to have a seperate forum for the Dead, at least for the time being? This way we could check up on the latest news coming out of this situation, and stll be able to find other posts related to other bands.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Dec 4, 2005 11:07am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Moderation: Grateful Dead Thread and Post Control in Forum

A separate forum may happen by default once the GD material is moved out of the LMA to its own audio collection at the site.

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Poster: Grtfl Prophet Date: Dec 4, 2005 2:07pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Moderation: Grateful Dead Thread and Post Control in Forum

could you give me a little more info on this move? I tried searching past posts but couldnt seem to dig anything up.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Dec 5, 2005 9:30am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Moderation: Grateful Dead Thread and Post Control in Forum

It's covered briefly in the FAQ. The problem is that much of the GD material here no longer meets the fundamental Live Music Archive principle of having a lossless fileset be the principal available copy. This is an issue of large importance to the larger, core LMA community well beyond Deadheads. Believe it or not, there may have been an even larger flamewar here if we had said it was OK to leave just lossy streams in the LMA.

LMA is established as a *lossless* collection of trade-friendly, complete live performances. However, there is much room at the Internet Archive as a whole for other types of collections and material. See the top nav bar on any page.

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-12-05 17:30:03

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Poster: Ole Uncle John Date: Dec 4, 2005 8:56pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Moderation: Grateful Dead Thread and Post Control in Forum

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-12-05 04:05:35

a little heavy on the edit



This post was modified by Ole Uncle John on 2005-12-05 04:56:47

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Dec 4, 2005 9:07pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Moderation: Grateful Dead Thread and Post Control in Forum

Trying for below-zero on the chill level for a bit, sorry!

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Poster: HighNRGOne Date: Dec 6, 2005 9:27pm
Forum: etree Subject: This Says It All

Thanks for coming out and helping us make this music tonight. You know, this music really is about the community and expanding our consciousness of each other and how we all fit together in these challenging times.

- Phil Lesh speaking to audience at Phil Lesh & Friends performance in New Jersey - Nov. 22, 2005.

This post was modified by HighNRGOne on 2005-12-07 05:27:38

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Poster: midnight sun Date: Dec 6, 2005 5:24am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Undue Censorship : Grateful Dead Thread and Post Control in Forum

It just seems a wee bit ironic that the very moderation that made LMA the primo forum now wants to send all of the wonderful GD oriented writers packing.

Thanks to all of the thoughtful writers, far too many to list without leaving some of the gems out.

Hope to see ya all down the road somewhere?

Thanks to LMA for all of their efforts. Sorry if we overstayed our welcome. I'll swing by this way once in a while to check up on non GD related posts.

Best wishes to all.

This post was modified by midnight sun on 2005-12-06 13:24:02

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Poster: HighNRGOne Date: Dec 6, 2005 5:14am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Undue Censorship : Grateful Dead Thread and Post Control in Forum

Very well said. I am sad to see that the very community I discovered in this forum alone (and whose existence was denied by those who would censor music) is no longer palatable to some.

So as not to leave on a sour note I would like to thank everyone (even those with whom I vigorously disagreed) for teaching me so much over these past 10 days.

Thank you for opening my mind and allowing me to participate with you in such a rich canvas of expression, thought, emotion, wit, and, yes, even silliness. It has been an honor and something not soon to be forgotten.

Best regards and the happiest, most peaceful new year yet to everyone!

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Poster: REVSOUP Date: Dec 6, 2005 5:47am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Undue Censorship : Grateful Dead Thread and Post Control in Forum

why don't we start up a yahoo group *cringe* or something ?so we CAN have a forumas well as keep the community that i also recently discovered because of the current whatever the hell ya wanna call them?

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Poster: murph13 Date: Dec 6, 2005 10:47am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Undue Censorship : Grateful Dead Thread and Post Control in Forum

it certainly would not have been a great loss to have this bit of blather deleted.
Thank you to Diane Hamilton and all the staff at LMA for their patience these last two weeks. I had to buy a new hard drive to handle the wealth of SBDs flooding the internet. If you want the music it is available at multiple sites, if you just want to rant and rave, at this point it is boring, and the personal attacks are uncalled for.

Peace and Enjoy the season!

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Dec 6, 2005 9:56pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: movin' on

would not have been a great loss

FTR, this morning I observe some significant context loss above, so possibly we're beginning to move on now.